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The Lantern, Ohio State University, Columbus OH
March 2001

by Sam Carle [interview transcript]

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Sam: Overall, this is the eighth Over The Rhine album, right? That is counting "Besides" and "Amateur Shortwave Radio." Technically, however, it would be the sixth full-length studio feature, if I'm correct.

Linford: Correct.

S: What are your overall feelings concerning the forthcoming record? Naturally, being an artist you are your own worst critic. I'm interested in what your initial thoughts were once everything was completed and you listened to the final mix? Was it satisfying or were you unsure in any way? Is it what you expected considering you've been present through the entire metamorphosis?

L: Recordings always take on a life of their own. Even after making a half dozen full-length studio recordings, I still feel like I have little or no idea what to expect when we go into the studio with a handful of songs. It's an exciting and intimidating and rewarding process. Of course we always have some doubts when we're finished. Why did we put this song on the record and leave this one off? Does the album hang together? Is it too diverse? Not diverse enough?

All in all, I'm very very happy with the way Films For Radio turned out. I believe it's our most accomplished work thus far in the history of the band. It's a messy, juicy record, left of center, vibey, literate pop music. If I didn't know Over the Rhine from Adam, I still know I would be happy to add this recording to my collection.

S: Are there any particular tracks that stand out for you? If so, what and why?

L: A few of my personal favorites are The World Can Wait which opens the record, If Nothing Else (track 2) and When I Go which closes the record. The World Can Wait is a very personal song which explores some of our recurring doubts and hopes over the last few years. Over the Rhine has been more-or-less an all consuming labor of love for us. When you pursue something you love, inevitably you're in for a wild ride. Our dreams have a way of making fools of us time and time again. And yet we can't imagine leaving music and doing something more safe or predictable. Making music teaches us so much about what it means to be human. Making music reminds us that we're all writing a story with our lives, whether or not we ever pick up a pen. Imagine living this life without music. We would all be dying inside, and unable to explain why.

If Nothing Else is feel good pop song with brains. I like the character who is singing very much. She's trying to figure out how to reconcile a beautiful internal world of ideas and wonder with her tendency to be a consummate slacker. I've got great hopes for the character singing this song. She's going to surprise herself someday. And I love Jack's lap steel playing on this one.

When I Go is a stark spare song that asks the question, Will it make a difference when I go? Wouldn't we all like to know the answer to that one...

Oh, I forgot, I also like Little Blue River alot. It's an extended, meandering, soulful jam and Karin improvises part of an old hymn at the end of it.

Almost all of the songs on the record are being sung in the first person. I think all the characters singing these songs (in the first person) would give anything to live a life worth remembering. They're all coming to the conclusion, like I was saying earlier, that they're writing a story with their lives whether or not they ever pick up a pen. They're all essentially asking the same question: What must I do to make my life a true story?

S: Although "Amateur Shortwave Radio" was a live album, the version of "Moth" included was a very good polished recording. What prompted the band to include the track on this new album?

L: We didn't include the track. We re-recorded a version that absolutely kicks the original version's ass.

S: I have a quick question about a track not included on the new album. I think you referred to it at a live show as "Green Clouded Swallowtail." What a brilliant song! I was kind of disappointed that it wasn't included on this one. How does the band work its process of elimination?

L: That's one of the hardest parts of recording. I love that song too, but in the end, it didn't seem to fit this song cycle. So we slipped a beautiful version of it into our archive for future use. Maybe it will turn up as a B-Side, or maybe we'll feature it one month at overtherhine.com as our MP3 rarity.

S: Where did the title "Films for Radio" come from? This could actually evolve into a similar, but broader question. - How do you, as a band, come up with your album titles? I would assume you try to define the culmination of the entire effort and it's probably fairly difficult to say, with a few words, "This is what I'm trying to say!" - What are you, collectively, trying to say with "Films for Radio?"

L: I got the idea for the title from a local artist here in Cincinnati called Aralee Strange. Aralee is a poet and a film-maker who had written a surreal radio drama about ten years ago called Etta Stone: A Film For Radio. I loved Etta Stone and I always loved that phrase and asked her if we could use it. I like thinking of these songs as short films. And again, one of the lines in the first song is "Roll the movie of my life inside of my head." The character in the song is recognizing that her life is a story. She wants to try to take care of her story and take care not to miss the good parts.

S: So, who do you have on board this time around? How did you choose the line-up that, along with Karin and yourself, brought these tunes to life? What strikes you about the fellow musicians you have playing with you on this newest effort?

L: The band is amazing. Don Heffington played drums on the record. He's played with Bob Dylan, Emmylou Harris, Victoria Williams, The Wallflowers et al. He and Tom Waits went out and got tatoos together when they were kids. Don has a lot of grit and a deep, deep musical well to dip into. Byron House played most of the bass parts. He's played with Emmylou Harris and a lot of Bluegrass legends as well as various trippy rock bands.

Jack Henderson played electric guitars. Jack has been with us a for a few years and relocated to Cincinnati from his home in London, England. I still feel like we're scratching the surface of what Jack has to offer as a player and a writer. He's got a record of his own coming out soon that's very strong.

I played hammond organ, piano, wurlitzer electric piano etc. and some guitar and bass and did a little drum loop editing etc. Karin sang her proverbial heart out and went straight for the emotional jugular on this one. Karin sings like it's her last night on earth as far as I'm concerned. No holding back. I love her intensity and I love how she's able to go deep.

Our co-producer, Dave Perkins also contributed some guitar bits. He's produced records for Carole King and has jammed with Ray Charles. A lot of history there too to draw on.

S: Since Jack Henderson is *the* guitar player in the album, I'd like to ask a couple of questions about his involvement with the band. I recall once at a concert recently, you mentioned that you hooked up with him in London. How did this come about?

L: I met Jack while I was traveling in Europe. He sang a song for me that made me ask myself if maybe it was the best song I'd ever heard in my life. I loved his big ragged voice, and I soon learned to appreciate Jack as a beautiful, broken, hopeful, sad, humorous human being.

S: In your opinion, what does Jack add to the mix? To me, his approach is completely different than Ric Hordinski's. I've always associated Hordinski with a more jazzy style and, in listening to Henderson, I can hear the British influence in his playing. It seems to echo the American Blues that many early pioneers of British artistry were influenced by.

L: I love Jack's playing. He's grittier and approaches his playing more like a songwriter. He's not afraid to do very little. I think Jack is trying to get at something utterly heartbroken with his playing. He views alot of flashy guitar playing as bullshit. He wants something more understated, subversive, vibey.

S: How does he benefit the band, musically? I personally like the "in-your-face" attitude his playing possesses. Although I'm generally drawn to music dominated with guitar work (I'm a big fan of the Eagles, The Allman Brothers Band), I like how he knows when and when not to play. As a guitarist, you learn that some of the most important notes you can play are the one's that you don't. I personally love his lap steel work, especially on "Little Blue River." Do you think the overall style of the band has changed since he took over the guitar spot?

L: I think Jack began to shape his playing to fit Over the Rhine, but certainly he brought his own sensibilities to the table and helped evolve our sound. Jack's playing is more about tone, and he's got a great tone. He plays a Strat or a Gretsch or a Guild through a forty year old Vox AC-30, and it's big, bold and beautiful. Again, I agree with you, Jack isn't afraid to leave space in his playing that allows other elements to breathe forward. I think Jack's guitar playing will bring him more and more notice. It's pretty special. A lot of seasoned players have commented on his lapsteel playing as well.

S: What has changed since the release of "Good Dog, Bad Dog?" Do you feel the band has matured more? Do you feel you're getting a fair amount of creative freedom on the Virgin Backporch label?

L: We've played alot of concerts since GDBD, and we toured at length with Cowboy Junkies. We're getting alot of freedom from the label to continue to explore what we're capable of musically. Films For Radio is a bit more visceral than GDBD. The rhythm sections have a stronger heartbeat. The textures are a bit thicker. There is a bigger palette of colors.

S: I'd like to ask about your involvement as a musician. I know you are responsible for many of the band's lyrics but It's hard to overlook the fact that you are one fine musician. Recently you've made yourself at home behind the keyboard instruments. How do you feel you and the band benefit from this? Many of the early records showcased your awesome bass work ("Fly Dance" is a personal favorite of mine). When did you decide to concentrate more on the keys? What brought you to this decision?

L: Well thanks for the compliments. I don't feel like my playing has ever been all that exceptional, but I do try to play from the heart. We felt like the original quartet had taken Over the Rhine as far as we could. We began to experiment with adding players about five years ago and the band went through some changes and re-invented itself. Piano is my first instrument and connects me to my earliest years of making music as a child. Music for me, as a child, was a secret language--one of the very few outlets I had as a child to express what I was really thinking without getting reprimanded for what was going on inside of me. I love playing the bass, but we wanted to make the textures of the band more dimensional. The Hammond B-3 is one of the most amazing instruments ever to come on the scene. Playing the Hammond brings me a lot of joy. It's a black choir in a hardwood box.

S: Who are your main influences? In this, I mean, when you occasionally listen to your records, who do you hear? Being a musician myself, I've allowed myself to absorb everything from Marlene Dietrich to Gun's n' Rose's, Fleetwood Mac to Robert Johnson and Sarah Brightman to the Aquarium Rescue Unit. Who stands out for you? In your writing and your playing?

L: We love all different kinds of music and have a very diverse record collection. Every week we recommend a record from our collection at overtherhine.com.

S: How's Karin doing these days?

L: Great.

S: This is my first question singling you and Karin out. You two have been together for awhile . . . married now. - What do you find is the most difficult aspect in working with your spouse in a job like this? I guess, with personal music, one almost develops a bond with the song, so to speak. In some ways, be it psychological or something, you just *know* what this or that means to you. How do you two develop that while, at the same time, retaining a pleasantly sweet chemistry? I've decided to put many musical aspects like this on hold because it's hard for me to realize that, despite the personal importance a song has for me, I have to allow someone to be able to add their own creative approach to it. To me, it feels like they are violating me as a person or attempting to understand a part of me that's just not possible to comprehend. How do you two work around it?

L: Well, Karin and I connected on a pretty deep level. Her voice was able to reach a part of me that I was unsure how to access. The part of me where my deepest feelings tucked themselves away. The hardest part about what we do is the fact that we're together ALL THE TIME. It's a blessing and a curse I suppose, but mostly a blessing. We get along very well at the end of the day, and Karin is a wonderful writing partner.

S: What pleases you the most with Karin's latest vocal work? For me it's hard to describe what I've seen over the past couple of years as far as an overall evolution is concerned. I love, as you've grown as a band and as people, how the overall aura of her voice has shifted to the more "mature" sound of today. An example, for me, would be comparing the studio cut to "Fly Dance" (can you tell I like the song?) to the cut that was re-released on the "Till We Have Faces" album. What is your involvement with the shaping of her voice on such cuts? I realize it's *her* voice we hear but I would think as a couple and as colleagues you two tend to keep each other in check. Are you happy with it? or, a little *too* happy sometimes?

L: I basically don't care what Karin does vocally as long as it moves me. If something isn't moving me, we talk about trying different things. I want to feel something when I listen to music in general, and our music especially. That's all that matters to me at the end of the day. I realize this is very subjective, but fortunately, we enjoy working together on the songs that end up on these projects. We enjoy experimenting.

S: Karin has also contributed more lately in the actual "songwriting department." I know this past tour showcased some great work including the newly penned "Anything At All." How do you feel you differ in songwriting as opposed to your partner? Do you tend to work with her a lot? Are you present in the early stages? or do you give her her own creative freedom and just go along with it?

L: We always give each other freedom in the early stages. I'm a bit more prolific than Karin I suppose. I'm not really sure I guess. She tends to write fewer songs, but they tend to be mostly gems in my opinion. I'm a little bit more obsessive when it comes to words maybe, but Karin has a wonderful melodic instinct. She has that rare ability to write a very "simple" song that you end up wanting to hear over and over.

S: I'd like to ask a couple of questions about genre. There are songs from your catalog such as "Like A Radio" and "Moth" that contain, to me, religious undertones. I'd sort of compare it to some of James Taylor's work or early Simon and Garfunkel. I guess, what I'm trying to say is, although it may showcase your particular values or system of beliefs, it doesn't totally ostracize a certain group for not understanding. You allow the listener to form their own conclusions and I think it takes a very open-minded, yet personally confident individual to do that. What do you try to do with songs such as these? Do you want to convey *your* message or do you want the listener to interpret it as, although it may not be along the lines of what you believe, whatever comforts them?

L: We approach songwriting from an intuitive point of departure. We're learning from the songs right along with the listener, exploring different angles, using our songs to help figure out what we believe is true. Sometimes something will dawn on me years after I wrote something, and I'll think, I'll bet that's why I wrote that. Something might have been going on in my life at the time, and only later can I make the connection. I consider myself to be on a spiritual journey, aren't we all, but I don't set out to write a song with that in mind. It does come through intuitively in the music, just like anyything else in my life that I care about.

S: One of the things that draws me to Over The Rhine is the ability of the band to take meaningful issues, issues that are personally important, heartfelt, what have you, and communicate them to crowds. I mentioned James Taylor and Simon and Garfunkel above and I'm serious when I say that's how I see Over The Rhine. It seems that many up-and-coming acts are lacking in substance, creativity and talent. I like how the band is able to take fairly intricate material with genuine messages and can speak. I remember reading a journalist's remark once concerning Gregg Allman and he said, "all music speaks, but only good music has something to say." What's it like to have something to say? to be able to go beyond all of the throw-away stuff out there and create something real, receiving a positive response?

L: Well, at the risk of sounding overly earnest, I'd rather listen to music that is connected to the soul. Most of the great jazz records, and most enduring pop recordings that I care about are able to stir some of the deepest parts of me. If it doesn't go deep, I usually lose interest.

S: Being a musician that knows his stuff, so to speak, when do you draw the line between emotion and intuition? When do you abandon your musical training in order to convey what it is you're saying? How do you make those decisions?

L: I'm not sure I "know my stuff", I'm learning along with everyone else, but I suppose abandoned much of my musical training a long time ago, and began to focus on connecting my music to my soul. Again, if it doesn't move me on a fairly deep level, I'm not usually that interested long term. I'm thankful for the training I did receive, but at some point I sort of threw away the rule book and started over.

S: What do you anticipate from Over The Rhine's musical future? Will you be taking some time off or will you still be chugging along?

L: I think we've got a lot more recordings left in us. I think we're hitting our stride. Sooner or later I think one of our records will explode, and we'll be hailed as an overnight success. We'll see how it goes. As long as we're having a good time, we'll probably keep going regardless of what happens. This record will have a pretty strong life force I think. We're excited to watch it make its way out in the world, grow up, fall in love, get its heart broken, etc.

S: I just have a couple of questions about the tour and then I'll wrap this novel up. First off, are you excited? I know it must be exhilarating to indulge in the "gypsy" lifestyle once in awhile. What do you look forward to most about going out on the road?

L: Playing with a great band in front of a great audience.

S: Kind of a dumb question here because no journalist expects a negative response to a question like this, but, are you anxious to come to Columbus? I know that last time you guys were here, despite the horrible weather, the crowd was great. How's the Ohio State hospitality? Do you get a fairly positive response from all of us here?

L: We did have a great crowd and a pretty trippy, high energy concert at Little Brothers last December. It was Karin's birthday that night. I personally can't wait to come back. Little Brothers is a bit rough around the edges, and I think the atmosphere and energy of the place pushes the music in an edgier direction. Maybe that's the audience too. We'll try to take everyone that shows up on a good ride.

S: Are you planning on any surprises this time around? What can we expect from Over The Rhine? Will it be a showcase for the new album or do you plan on supporting it, overall, with a fairly good amount of previous material? I remember seeing you perform "Faithfully Dangerous" without the acoustic guitars. You, yourself, playing some of the most brilliant electric piano I've ever heard; Karin referred to it as being in "fun church."

L: We'll be touring with an excellent five-piece band: Dale Baker on drums, Chris Donohue on bass, Jack Henderson on guitar, Karin and myself. We'll be playing a lot of the new stuff, but certainly mixing in songs from previous recordings.

We toured with Don Heffington for about a year and really enjoyed that opportunity, but we've had a great time recently with Dale as well. Suffice it to say Dale gives our music a real strong heartbeat, probably more energy than it has ever had. I think Dale has the potential to be an important player. He's pretty exceptional. It's amazing to me that he's going to be out with Over the Rhine this year.

Chris is a gifted multi-instrumentalist, and a phenomenal bass player. He's always grabbing little bits of Karin's melody or a little line someone else is doing and working it into his own thing. It's real obvious he's tuned into what's going on on stage. Believe me, I don't miss playing bass at all when he's around.

I don't know how else to say it. This band is a lot of fun to listen to. And it's great to be a fan of the musicians I'm working with.

S: Do you enjoy playing with a full band? What does it offer to you that other arrangements don't? I've seen the band countless times at the Canal Street Tavern in Dayton and I think it's my favorite place to see you guys. The acoustics are great and the feeling is totally unbelievable. Do you enjoy the stripped down shows or do you like to go out there and be a "rock and roll" band?

L: I like both. Both have different challenges and rewards. Right now I'm having the time of my life playing with this band.

S: What are your overall expectations concerning the promotion of the album? Are you pretty confident that the people will enjoy it? Are you prepared to go out and do as you always have and, well, amaze?

L: We've got a fantastic band to tour with. The songs can stand up to just about anything out there in my opinion. I know Karin's voice has the ability to move people deeply. I know we've got some of the best fans in the world and our audience will continue to grow. The rest is a mystery to me.

We very rarely if ever find ourselves going through the motions musically on the road. We didn't travel all those miles to play an OK show. We want to get goose bumps too. Oh occasionally, we'll be playing in an airplane hangar through a shit sound system, and we'll all have one too many drinks before the show. But it's very rare these days that I'm not looking around thinking, I can't believe I get to make this music with these people.

S: Well, Linford, here it is... Unfortunately, I won't be able to review the Columbus show for the paper. I leave that afternoon for Germany (I'm doing some internship work before I finish my degree out and do my two year stint in the Ukraine for the peace corps.). I will, however, be planning on attending the Cincy show at Bogarts. I hope to see you there. Anyways, I don't know what else to say without making myself sound like an annoying journalist or a crazed fan. Take care and good luck . . . stay safe . . .

L: Thanks Sam. We'll see you at Bogarts.